Monterey Times

Meet Lisa Talley, a Mass Communication & Journalism graduate from Fresno State and current law student at San Joaquin College of Law. She learned early on that the law is a powerful tool and is passionate about providing everyone with an opportunity to learn it once she graduates. Learn more about Lisa, including why she chose law as a second career, how establishing connections with her classmates and professors has already helped her, and how she maintains a healthy balance with her busy schedule. 

Tell us about your journey to law school. 

My journey wasn't linear. I didn't come from a family of lawyers, and, before school, I didn't know anybody in the legal field. My exposure to it all was kind of on the other side, the wrong side, I guess you would say. I learned early on that the law is a very powerful thing. It can shape your life and change everything forever. Over time, I realized that there was a lot that I didn't understand about the law, and then I learned I wasn't alone. For a majority of people, it's sort of a big, terrifying mystery. Part of demystifying the law for myself was wanting to learn it and want to share what I learned with other people. But pursuing the law wasn't necessarily anything that I felt encouraged to do because it just seemed like something other people did, such as people who have families in the legal field, who had that support, or who had money. So, I went elsewhere and did other things for a while. But the older I got, the more I kept coming back to it. The industry I'm in right now, media, fit me for a long time, but the more I was doing it, the less it felt like me. And the more I learned about the law, the more that felt like me. It was something I couldn't ignore anymore, so I started looking into the LSAT and doing my research. Then, I applied to a couple of schools.

I got accepted into UC Davis, and I was looking at UC Davis versus San Joaquin College of Law. I landed on SJCL because it has an excellent reputation for being very tight-knit and extremely community-oriented. Plus, the cost to uproot my life to move to a different part of the state and attend a school with exponentially higher tuition was staggering. And my family, friends, and life are here. Additionally, Dean Pearson also had wonderful things to say during orientation about how the law is for everybody, and if you want to learn it, you should be able to. That drew me in. It made sense to be here.

What advice would you give to people like you who didn't think learning the law and applying to law school was for them?

You'd be absolutely surprised by how relevant your experience and your knowledge will be towards learning the law. Despite what people think learning the law is like, it's not rocket science. It's not a completely different language that's so foreign that it's beyond the reach of the average person. It's not that kind of academia. It is understandable and approachable if you give yourself time to know it and work at it consistently. SJCL will be the foundation for your entrance into the law, and they're going to provide you with all of the tools you need to start dissecting it and getting into it and absorbing it. You don't have to have an innate knowledge of the law or how to maneuver through the principles and theories. You're not supposed to come to the table with all of that. The professors give those tools to you. So you're fully equipped to at least begin the journey. 

How has your experience been at San Joaquin College of Law so far?

I learned remotely for my entire first year of law school and did not set foot on campus. While I felt somewhat disconnected for a while, I was surprised to find that the professors were completely accessible. And having been on campus for my second year, that hasn't changed at all. Like most 1Ls, I was filled with anxiety. I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't know whether I was "getting it," and everything felt so vague and ambiguous. But every time I got stuck or wasn't sure which direction to go, my professors were literally an email away. Each of them had a different approach which was great because it helped me develop a more well-rounded understanding of legal theory. No matter what, I could go to someone with my questions, and I never felt like I was intruding upon their time or space. For example, Professor Goodrich was amazing with a tough love kind of learning. She will give you the tools that you need, but she's going to put you through your paces, and she's going to step out of your way a little bit so you can put the pieces together yourself versus somebody like Dean Tennerelli. She'll not only tell me whether I'm on track or not, but she'll also tell me the answer, why it's the answer, and how to find it through all of my cases. It's like this big picture kind of approach to learning, so it's been incredibly helpful to have that. 

Have the smaller class sizes at San Joaquin College of Law been helpful for you through law school?

The smaller class size has been incredibly helpful. For one, there are fewer names to remember, and that means it's easier for someone else to remember your name as well. It's also very easy for your professors to get familiar with who you are, so you're not a mystery to them either. So, when you approach them, you've already established this connection because you've shared words at some point, and you don't feel like you're just a number. You're not another seat or some random face in a crowd. You're part of a small group where they know your name, and they have a sense of where you're at in your learning process. I know everybody puts Zoom learning down a little bit. Still, one of the cool things we can do as students is send private messages to each other and asking if someone understood what was just said or if they got a screenshot of the last slide or anything, so we're able to connect more instantly. I imagine it's harder to do that in person when you're still learning who your classmates are and building relationships with them.

What advice do you have for incoming students for staying productive while they're studying?

Take breaks. You have to remind yourself that you're not a machine. You're not supposed to sit there and grind it out for eight hours straight. You need to get up, walk around, take a break, and you need to be honest with yourself when you're no longer absorbing information. Just because you're staring at your book for the fifth hour doesn't mean that you're actually learning or retaining anything. If you know that about yourself and you get up and walk around, or you can mentally check out for a second and then come back to it, you're probably going to be more efficient with your time. Plus, it's motivating. You can look forward to breaks, and you can breathe a little bit easier, not thinking that it's got to be this constant, non-stop grind. 

How important is it to maintain your mental health and practice self care through law school?

Mental health is crucial. You can't focus if you're scattered, or if you're freaking out about other things, or worried that you're trying to take on too much. You need so much of your focus and energy on the material that fracturing it by overloading yourself or not giving yourself time away from it will impact your learning. Whether your goal is to absorb the material better, get a high GPA, or just do well, something has to motivate you to keep that together because it will dramatically impact your ability to focus if you don't. 

How important is it to have conversations about time management with your family, friends and loved ones before starting law school?

The support that you need through law school will be a lot more than you think, and being able to talk about it with your household or partner is super important because you both need to be on the same page. It's almost like you're both going to be in law school. During the semester, when I have assignments, I'm at the table reading for hours, so I literally can't get up and do very much. A lot of the taking care of the house, groceries, and some of the things that normally would be every day, the menial task has to be taken up by somebody else, so they're sharing that workload with you. Your partner is going to have to absorb some of what you can't do, and it's going to help you in the end as well, but you have to be on the same page. You both have to agree that this is important. You both have to understand the workload that's coming. You might not be able to grasp how much of it there's going to be, but you have to be ready for it to be a lot. That can translate to your partner cooking more, shopping more, taking care of kids more, or whatever it may be so that you, as a student, have time to dedicate towards your studies. It's truly a team effort. 

What advice do you have for maintaining a healthy work, school and life balance while in law school?

Maintaining a healthy work/life balance comes down to time management. There's really no way to slice it. First of all, you have to tell yourself that grinding it out on your studies for 24 hours or 12 hours or whatever, that not all of that time is going to be productive. What else could you do with that time? If you're not going to use that time for studying or for work, put it towards maintaining your relationships. You could dedicate one or two hours to making sure that you have dinner with your spouse. Whether it's for your mental health or with your partner or your kids or whoever, put that time there, even if it's just for a tiny bit, because it really counts, and people notice it, especially if they understand how busy you are. When it comes to work, take it in bite-sized chunks. You've got to look at it from task to task and milestone to milestone, whether that's for school or work. If you have deadlines and projects that you have to complete and you're looking at them all lumped together throughout the semester, you might break down and cry. It can feel really overwhelming, so you have to just focus on the next step, one bite at a time, and just start chipping away at work and focus on what you've accomplished, not what you have left to do. 

Are you working through law school and if so, what do you do?

For my entire first year, I was the Education Coordinator at CMAC where I developed curriculum and led workshops. Sometimes, we train schools to improve media literacy with students and the community. We also encourage the community to come in and tell their stories through a variety of different means using digital media. During the spring semester of my first year, I led a cohort of high school students. The program was called Youth Voices, where they came in and sat with me for more than 14 weeks while I taught them about documentary filmmaking. They chose stories that they wanted to tell from a range of subjects like LGBTQ issues, homelessness, and all kinds of different things - one student even produced a story about the New American Legal Clinic (NALC) in her documentary on immigration. It was really cool to see my two worlds come together like that because they were developing these stories and learning the process of documentary filmmaking at the same time. Part of my job was to teach and guide them, keep on track with their stories, help them develop those stories, and put them together to do a screening by the end of it. This was all kind of happening in the background while I was doing law school at the same time.

It's great that you were able to balance your workload while you were in school. What advice do you have for students who have to work through law school?

I have to give a lot of credit to who I work for. I think having a solid relationship with your work is essential. If you have to work, if you can manage it, have that communication with your supervisor about what law school is going to potentially be like and what it might demand of you. They don't need to bend over backward for you, but they can just have compassion for what you're going through. If they can keep that in mind and see that a task is not something they need to put on your plate or something at that moment, it would be nice to kind of have that relationship with your work. And if you don't have that relationship, I will say that it is going to be tough because you need to be able to have time to read. I was reading before work, during lunch, and after work. Anytime it slowed down at work, I was in my books, and I was lucky that I had that kind of work environment to be able to do that. So, I think having a strong, open communication line with your supervisor and gauging that they understand what you're going through will give you an insight into how your work is going to impact your studies.

What area of law are you interested in or what's your dream legal job?

One of the things that I've figured out is that I want to go into public interest because I very much believe that the law should not be a mystery to the average person. Too many people use it to bully others into getting what they want or prey on people's ignorance about it, their lack of information, and access to the law. Anywhere I can be in the mix to sort of correct that imbalance, that's where I want to be. 

How important is it to make connections with your professors and peers while you're in law school?

Even connecting with other students over the curriculum gives us opportunities to talk about who someone might be trying to intern with or where their interests are and align with our own interests. But one of the great connections is with professors. It is important to have an open line of dialogue with them and maintain that connection with professors. If they get used to seeing your face and knowing your name now, it increases the chance that you will pop up in their minds later when they're thinking about job opportunities and which students to reach out to for those. Actually, because of that, I was offered a law clerk position at the end of my first semester. Then at the end of the spring semester, I got a couple of offers to start applying for different firms in the criminal law area. I definitely had options right away.  If you have an open line of communication with professors, email them with questions and do well in school, your name will start to circulate in their minds. And when they have firms reaching out to them asking if they know any students who might be available or interested, your name is going to pop up on their list, and you're going to get an email in your inbox asking if you're looking for a place to intern. That's almost unheard of for professors to do with their students or for any student to really experience that. If you're in a class of 100 or 200 students, how often do you think that's going to happen? So personally, I'm not at all worried about whether I'm going to end up putting my degree to use after I graduate. My only concern is whether I'm going to like what I do and if I'm going to finally figure out exactly where I want to be once I graduate, but I'm not at all worried about whether I'll put my law degree to use.

How does it feel knowing you'll have a degree that gives you the freedom and flexibility in your career to work in a multitude of industries?

It feels like a giant light at the end of the tunnel. It's a confidence builder and motivating factor for me. Law school can feel so daunting, and there are moments where I'm looking at 250 pages of reading, and I'm like, "did I make the right choice? Is this really what I want to do with my summer?" But then I look at where my options are right now, and I can see how it will explode open once that degree is in my hands. That keeps me right on track, and it's a huge motivating factor.

What's been your most challenging aspect of law school so far?

Honestly, it's been self-confidence. There's a saying that law school attracts Type A personalities because we don't want to just get it right. We want to excel. We want to come out on top, and a lot of us are used to being 4.0 GPA and Dean's List kind of students. Taking something so foreign that I don't know what's up or what's down, the material has felt somewhat defeating. Especially for me because I was out of undergrad for almost 10 years before I decided to come back to school. I'd also been an adjunct lecturer at Fresno State for the MCJ Department, and I was teaching media literacy at CMAC. Then I came into law school, where I knew absolutely nothing, and it was extremely uncomfortable. It was hard to convince myself that I was in the right place and that I would succeed. That whole 'believing in yourself' thing sounds kind of silly, but it's true. You really need to have the confidence and believe that you can do this. That's probably been the hardest part for me. 

What advice do you have for incoming students and future applicants thinking about going to law school?

Know that you're doing it for the right reasons and the right reasons are anything except "I'm doing it because I just want to make money" or "I'm doing it for the prestige." You're going to need a lot more than that to motivate you through the rest of it. You're going to give yourself over to law school, you are going to redefine yourself, and you're going to transform. It's going to be painful at times, but it's also going to be worth it. That kind of transformation takes commitment and dedication. You have to be ready for it, and you have to know that you're prepared for it. Maybe you're worried that you're not smart enough or you're not capable, but throw all that out the window because you are. If you've gotten so far as receiving that acceptance letter in your hand, you're ready. You're capable. But are you committed? You've got to know that you're committed and use that to motivate yourself through law school. 

Want to learn more about San Joaquin College of Law, attend a virtual forum or set up an appointment to discuss your law school future? Contact our Assistant Director of Admissions, Francisco "Javier" Rosas, or our Director of Admissions, Diane Steel, today!

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